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How does a Wi-Fi only tablet route on Google Maps when on the road?



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 30th 18, 10:52 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.home.repair,alt.cellular
nospam[_2_]
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Default How does a Wi-Fi only tablet route on Google Maps when on the road?

In article , Ragnusen Ultred
wrote:


An app can query the GPS in your tablet and plot the position using
local geodata that was downloaded when you were connected.


This would make sense but I must have forgotten to mention this is a
WiFi-only tablet, in that there is neither GPS nor cellular capability.

So the location has to be by some other means than GPS.


you've been told how it works on many, many occasions.
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  #12  
Old March 30th 18, 10:56 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.home.repair,alt.cellular
Andy Burns[_12_]
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Default How does a Wi-Fi only tablet route on Google Maps when on theroad?

Ragnusen Ultred wrote:

I must have forgotten to mention this is a
WiFi-only tablet


You omit to say what O/S it is using.

in that there is neither GPS nor cellular capability.


It was explained to one of your alter-egos some time ago, how Google
uses wifi for coarse geolocation, it may have escaped your notice that
unless explicitly disabled, recent versions of android will do that even
when WiFi is "off".
  #13  
Old March 30th 18, 11:25 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.home.repair,alt.cellular
Meanie[_2_]
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Default How does a Wi-Fi only tablet route on Google Maps when on theroad?

On 3/30/2018 5:48 PM, Ragnusen Ultred wrote:
Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 19:57:31 -0600, schrieb rbowman:

An app can query the GPS in your tablet and plot the position using
local geodata that was downloaded when you were connected.


This would make sense but I must have forgotten to mention this is a
WiFi-only tablet, in that there is neither GPS nor cellular capability.

So the location has to be by some other means than GPS.


How about telling us the tablet brand and model...., contact the
manufacturer and ask them if it has GPS.
  #14  
Old March 30th 18, 11:27 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.home.repair,alt.cellular
Meanie[_2_]
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Default How does a Wi-Fi only tablet route on Google Maps when on theroad?

On 3/30/2018 5:40 PM, Tim wrote:
Meanie wrote in news
On 3/29/2018 5:47 PM, Ragnusen Ultred wrote:
Recently, I noticed that, on a WiFi-only tablet, the Google Map App
was "tracking" me while on the road, where the WiFi-only tablet
definitely does not have a GPS chip nor does it have a cellular
capability. http://i.cubeupload.com/jOw0fO.gif

Since this was a surprise to me that a WiFi-only tablet could "route"
on top of an offline (aka "OK MAPS") google map while driving on the
road, I was telling someone about it, who asked this question:

Q: Is Google using previously stored WiFi AP SSIDs in the offline
maps to locate your position, or, is the tablet's Wi-Fi automatically
connecting to open APs, and hence giving away the location by that
method?



I have to stand somewhat corrected. The above mention of Apple
products (iPads) put my mindset on that, whereas you never mentioned
iPad but simply tablets. Therefore, it's very possible other tablet
brands have GPS within their WiFi only devices. I can only attest to
iPads who don't.

Both my Nexus 7 (2013) and my ASUS Zenpad S 8 are wifi only and have GPS.
What I have done in the past was to select an area in Google Maps and
download it to my tablet. Maps will then use that downloaded map and
tablet's GPS to track my location on the map and give turning directions if
I have asked for them.


Are you able to use an offline map app such as Copilot?
  #15  
Old March 31st 18, 03:40 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.home.repair,alt.cellular
Ragnusen Ultred
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Posts: 75
Default How does a Wi-Fi only tablet route on Google Maps when on the road?

Am Fri, 30 Mar 2018 18:27:28 -0400, schrieb Meanie:

Are you able to use an offline map app such as Copilot?


This is a simple technical question, which only needs technical answers.

I have been working deeply on Adobe Illustrator and five other projects, so
I haven't fully tested yet how Google Maps knows where we are and how
Google Maps routes without either cellular or GPS being available.

One thing I tested quickly though is the following, which needs to be
confirmed on the road, since I was at home at the time of testing this
where each test is started after rebooting the iPad.

1. Location could not be determined
Routing appears to not work (reporting "offline - touch to retry")
Route Preview appears to work just fine
a. Wi-Fi = off
b. Bluetooth = off
c. Airplane mode = on
d. GPS does not exist
e. Cellular does not exist
f. Settings Google Maps Location While Using the App = checked
g. Settings Google Maps Notifications Allow Notification = on
h. Settings Google Maps Background App Refresh = on
i. Google offline maps already previously downloaded using "OK MAPS"

2. Location could not be determined
Routing appears to not work (reporting "offline - touch to retry")
Route Preview appears to work just fine
a. Wi-Fi = off
b. Bluetooth = off
c. Airplane mode = off === this is the only change from above
d. GPS does not exist
e. Cellular does not exist
f. Settings Google Maps Location While Using the App = checked
g. Settings Google Maps Notifications Allow Notification = on
h. Settings Google Maps Background App Refresh = on
i. Google offline maps already previously downloaded using "OK MAPS"

3. Location could not be determined
Routing appears to not work (reporting "offline - touch to retry")
Route Preview appears to work just fine
a. Wi-Fi = off
b. Bluetooth = on === this is the only change from above
c. Airplane mode = off
d. GPS does not exist
e. Cellular does not exist
f. Settings Google Maps Location While Using the App = checked
g. Settings Google Maps Notifications Allow Notification = on
h. Settings Google Maps Background App Refresh = on
i. Google offline maps already previously downloaded using "OK MAPS"

4. Location was extremely accurate
Routing appears to work just fine
Route Preview appears to work just fine
a. Wi-Fi = on === this is the only change from above
b. Bluetooth = on
c. Airplane mode = off
d. GPS does not exist
e. Cellular does not exist
f. Settings Google Maps Location While Using the App = checked
g. Settings Google Maps Notifications Allow Notification = on
h. Settings Google Maps Background App Refresh = on
i. Google offline maps already previously downloaded using "OK MAPS"

I need to test this on the road, so consider these preliminary results.
  #16  
Old March 31st 18, 03:54 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.home.repair,alt.cellular
Ragnusen Ultred
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Default How does a Wi-Fi only tablet route on Google Maps when on the road?

Am Fri, 30 Mar 2018 22:56:27 +0100, schrieb Andy Burns:

You omit to say what O/S it is using.


I wasn't sure if it mattered which operating system the tablet is using
because I'm asking about Google Maps app location tracking without cellular
or GPS.
http://i.cubeupload.com/Prq1BQ.gif

But to answer your question clearly, this is an Apple iOS 11.2.6 tablet
bought only a month ago so I'm still in the setup and organization phase
where I was surprised that Google Maps routed and tracked fine without any
GPS or cellular existing.
http://i.cubeupload.com/PXDpGA.gif
  #17  
Old March 31st 18, 03:55 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.home.repair,alt.cellular
Retired[_3_]
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Posts: 1
Default How does a Wi-Fi only tablet route on Google Maps when on theroad?

On 3/30/18 10:40 PM, Ragnusen Ultred wrote:
Am Fri, 30 Mar 2018 18:27:28 -0400, schrieb Meanie:

Are you able to use an offline map app such as Copilot?


This is a simple technical question, which only needs technical answers.

I have been working deeply on Adobe Illustrator and five other
projects, so
I haven't fully tested yet how Google Maps knows where we are and how
Google Maps routes without either cellular or GPS being available.

One thing I tested quickly though is the following, which needs to be
confirmed on the road, since I was at home at the time of testing this
where each test is started after rebooting the iPad.

1. Location could not be determined
┬* Routing appears to not work (reporting "offline - touch to retry")
┬* Route Preview appears to work just fine
┬* a. Wi-Fi = off
┬* b. Bluetooth = off
┬* c. Airplane mode = on
┬* d. GPS does not exist
┬* e. Cellular does not exist
┬* f. Settings Google Maps Location While Using the App = checked
┬* g. Settings Google Maps Notifications Allow Notification = on
┬* h. Settings Google Maps Background App Refresh = on
┬* i. Google offline maps already previously downloaded using "OK MAPS"

2. Location could not be determined
┬* Routing appears to not work (reporting "offline - touch to retry")
┬* Route Preview appears to work just fine
┬* a. Wi-Fi = off
┬* b. Bluetooth = off
┬* c. Airplane mode = off┬* === this is the only change from above
┬* d. GPS does not exist
┬* e. Cellular does not exist
┬* f. Settings Google Maps Location While Using the App = checked
┬* g. Settings Google Maps Notifications Allow Notification = on
┬* h. Settings Google Maps Background App Refresh = on
┬* i. Google offline maps already previously downloaded using "OK MAPS"

3. Location could not be determined
┬* Routing appears to not work (reporting "offline - touch to retry")
┬* Route Preview appears to work just fine
┬* a. Wi-Fi = off
┬* b. Bluetooth = on === this is the only change from above
┬* c. Airplane mode = off ┬* d. GPS does not exist
┬* e. Cellular does not exist
┬* f. Settings Google Maps Location While Using the App = checked
┬* g. Settings Google Maps Notifications Allow Notification = on
┬* h. Settings Google Maps Background App Refresh = on
┬* i. Google offline maps already previously downloaded using "OK MAPS"

4. Location was extremely accurate
┬* Routing appears to work just fine
┬* Route Preview appears to work just fine
┬* a. Wi-Fi = on┬* === this is the only change from above
┬* b. Bluetooth = on ┬* c. Airplane mode = off ┬* d. GPS does not exist
┬* e. Cellular does not exist
┬* f. Settings Google Maps Location While Using the App = checked
┬* g. Settings Google Maps Notifications Allow Notification = on
┬* h. Settings Google Maps Background App Refresh = on
┬* i. Google offline maps already previously downloaded using "OK MAPS"

I need to test this on the road, so consider these preliminary results.



Perhaps #4 can be explained by:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad#I...t_connectivity

"The iPad can use Wi-Fi network trilateration from Skyhook Wireless to
provide location information to applications such as Google Maps."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyhook_Wireless

"Skyhook is a mobile location services company based in Boston, MA
that specializes in location positioning, context and intelligence."
  #18  
Old March 31st 18, 04:00 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.home.repair,alt.cellular
Ragnusen Ultred
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Posts: 75
Default How does a Wi-Fi only tablet route on Google Maps when on the road?

Am Fri, 30 Mar 2018 17:52:41 -0400, schrieb nospam:

you've been told how it works on many, many occasions.


You just make everything up, like what you just said.

To prove that statement, simply point to the location where anyone was
"told this information", and especially to the "many occasions".

What's that?
You can't?

I know. You just made it up. Like you constantly do.

You just make everything up.
Have you no sense of credibility?

Anyway, you clearly don't know the answer even though this is a simple
technical question, so moving on, I turned off everything I could as the
starting point, where, under that specific circumstance, the Google Maps
app could not track the location.
https://cubeupload.com/im/8urJSE.gif

However, when I started turning stuff on, even without any GPS or cellular
functionality on the tablet,
https://cubeupload.com/im/ndWTJU.gif

So, the end result, for sms and anyone else contemplating purchasing this
128GB 9.7" WiFi-only tablet which I bought three of at Costco about a month
ago for $300, the Google Map app /does/ appear to be able to route even
though the table does not have a GPS or cellular functionality.
  #19  
Old March 31st 18, 04:08 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.home.repair,alt.cellular
Ragnusen Ultred
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Posts: 75
Default How does a Wi-Fi only tablet route on Google Maps when on the road?

Am Fri, 30 Mar 2018 18:25:25 -0400, schrieb Meanie:

How about telling us the tablet brand and model...., contact the
manufacturer and ask them if it has GPS.


Just to confirm, the tablet is the cheapest recent Apple 9.7-inch 128GB
WiFi-only tablet, which I bought three of at Costco, where I gave two away
as gifts, and kept one to learn more about it and to help the others use
it. https://cubeupload.com/im/wnaHgc.gif

Currently I have only loaded the following freeware map apps for off trail
and on-road tracking and routing.
https://cubeupload.com/im/QLTUDM.gif

At that cheap price of only $300, the tablet doesn't have cellular or GPS
capabilities, so I had assumed that the tablet couldn't do map routing on
the road, but it turns out that it can do map routing on the road even
without GPS or cellular signal.
https://cubeupload.com/im/ndWTJU.gif

So I'm just asking a simple technical question of /how/ it does that.
https://cubeupload.com/im/ErUuG6.gif

Sometimes, it gives me the following error:
https://cubeupload.com/im/8urJSE.gif

At other times, it does only a preview but not an active route:
https://cubeupload.com/im/Prq1BQ.gif

And yet, it routes at other times.

So I'm just asking someone to explain how that happens, where all the
childish silly semantic games should be left for the Apple children to
play.
  #20  
Old March 31st 18, 04:15 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.home.repair,alt.cellular
Ragnusen Ultred
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Posts: 75
Default How does a Wi-Fi only tablet route on Google Maps when on the road?

Am Fri, 30 Mar 2018 11:34:48 -0400, schrieb nospam:

nope. it means an app is using location services to obtain the user's
location, which can be done without a hardware gps (and even if there
is a hardware gps, it's not always used)


Even though nospam always just guesses so he has a hit rate of about a 33%
(or an F in any classroom), he's actually right, by sheer luck, on this
guess of his.

The tablet /can/ route and track even without having any GPS or cellular
capability.

You have to turn location services on in the Google Map settings.
https://cubeupload.com/im/ErUuG6.gif

In addition, it helps to turn notifications on for the Google Map app.
https://cubeupload.com/im/ndWTJU.gif

At that point, even with no GPS and no cellular capability, the tablet can
actually route and track and do previews, as long as you've previously
downloaded the offline Google Maps of the desired area.
https://cubeupload.com/im/Prq1BQ.gif

The only technical question here is how Google does this, where it's clear
that WiFi is involved.
https://cubeupload.com/im/S79QqL.gif

Because without WiFi, Google can't seem to figure anything out.
https://cubeupload.com/im/8urJSE.gif

So, even after the Apple children have buzzed the picnic like an annoying
set of miserable gnats, the question remains which of the two methods
Google Maps is using for the location services.

1. Is Google using the geolocation of the *connected* WiFi access point?
2. Or is Google using the geolocation of the *unconnected* Wi-Fi APs?

NOTE: When you're on the road, you won't be connected to anything but
wide-open access points, so that's why the answer to the question matters.
 




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